Let me say first that I know very little about animal medicine. So if I am talking through my hat, please excuse me

My first thought is that only accepting the "positive" aspects of an animals medicine seems, disrespectful to the animal.

By refusing to accept the "negative" aspects on an animals enegy, aren't we running the risk of missing the whole reason an animal has connected to us. Just an example, Echidna teaches the value of stubborness, yet stubborness can be viewed as "negative". So if we refuse to accept "negatives", we miss the whole point.

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every being has positive and negative attributes. i think it would be a bit of a disgrace to ignore darker sides of an animal because we dont like it or it makes us nervous etc....

each animal has things to teach us and if we only look at certain facets we are definitly giving ourselves the "short end of the stick", so to speak


for instance if you only thought of the dolphin as loving and "fluffy" you would be ignoring its incredible ability to defend (like when it kills a shark! no easy feat for sure!!)

anywho~ just my thoughts

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I guess that if you depend on the dolphin's "medicine" as a guide to make you a better person or live a better life, then it makes sense that the ability to rape and other negative traits would not be accepted. I doubt the people that were against this in that community were those who gang-raped other people. So this trait would probably not be one they needed to confront in their shadow aspect or in their lessons.

It could also depend on the situation where Dolphin's involved. The lessons needed to be learned at that time may not encompass EVERY thing that Dolphin's species is capable of. Or perhaps the totem is actually an individual rather than an archetype (because different people have different beliefs, obviously); since not every dolphin out there rapes others, not every dolphin spirit/totem worked with will have that gang-rape trait either.

Now on the other hand, I do feel that one should at LEAST acknowledge the capacity for dolphins ability to gang-rape, or to acknowledge the capacity of any animal's negative traits alongside positive ones; regardless of whether the totem is an individual spirit or an archetypal spirit, and regardless of whether this is a primary totem or tertiary totem. To acknowledge this is to accept the animal as a whole, in my opinion.

If I didn't accept my friend's "darker" sides, or the ability to do so, or even my own, then the relationships with other people and myself seem superficial and not whole. False impressions and ideas are formed as a result and it's not very fulfilling.

I often suspect that people who try to ignore or disregard the "darker" sides of other species outside of humans are secretly misanthropes. They don't want to see something they think only humans do, because humans are the "evil" race and can't possibly be a part of nature (actually got into an argument with a guy about this, and he went so far as to say humans can from an alien species of bacteria and can't possibly be connected to other lifeforms on Earth ). To disregard these traits to to disregard yourself, in my opinion.

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I would tend to think that the 'negative' attributes of a given creature's nature would help to guide our awareness towards faults or shortcomings of our own - and thus help us to improve.

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Negative trait maybe the other side of same coin.
Like you gave Dolphine example, Love can be manifestation of their tendacy
to relationship and gang rape maybe too much energy of same power but
perverted and uncontrolled. If uncontrolled the power may alters in a bad way
and appears nagative traits.

Likewise, animal which has violent nature can be a "medicine for
courage" if the practioner use it in a right way. Nature itself have not
same sence of moral with us, it is our will that control and direct natural
forces.

Just my personal thought.

I was wondering about that actually..the species that have the ability to have sex for pleasure or love outside of pure instinctual drives...it seems that those abilities also come with their inverses in the species.

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Quabalah may be useful to explain this, shaman appearrently do not employ it but still usuful for us to observe something. Think of sephira Netzach and its Qlipoth. Netzach is a sephira of love and if it works in a balanced way it manifest as healthy love towards things and people around the person. But if unbalanced and hence becomes qlipothic force it seeks lust without uncensored. A name of qlipoth of Netzach is Lust and it is the excess of the same power.

I'm not an adept, but I have thoughts.

No, I don't think so. If we ignore the more 'negative' side of anything you deny the 'wholeness' of it. I don't want to walk around broken, and wouldn't expect that an animal would be overly happy that one would deny them their wholeness by ignoring what it is that makes them whole.



To ignore it, you run the risk of talking yourself into the fact that the animal kingdom has no 'darker' side. I guess, should an animal present an aspect of that darker side the person could be thrown for a loop.

It isn't just dolphin's gang-rape that can be considered 'darker', though it is a harder concept for people to allow into their worlds. We're all part of nature and while a gentle breeze is fulfilling, a tornado has it's own medicine (It clears land for new growth, etc.) and while we see that as destructive and threatening to human life, it is still there. Ignoring it can also take away from the severity of it.

Accepting does not mean you have to employ. Sometimes you can learn from the things that you only accept as truth. I suppose too though, that for some acceptance means that you are willing to employ - I don't see it that way. I accept that my Dad was an alcoholic, but that does not mean that I am going to follow in his footsteps.

I have a question now

Isn't acceptance a gateway for harnessing the darker side within? (not that all darkness is inherently bad!!!)'The first step is admitting that you have a problem', type thing? Could an animal's 'darker' medicine be used to put a stop to that tendency within a human being which most of humanity sees as inherently bad? (Or a tendency that the person themselves, wants to be rid of?)




Reducing an animal to anything or limiting them is in my mind, disrespectful. I don't know much about the animals I've never met, and really only know what's been written about those I have met. Personal spiritual experiences are limited. But Fox isn't just a stern teacher to me, he also likes to play and have a little fun. He's been a comforter in times when I felt I failed at a lesson, and in the same breath made me aware that my biggest failure was in my complacency and willingness to 'settle for less than the best'. Seeing him as only a teacher, I would have missed out on his sense of humor as well as the kick up the butt that I needed. I love Fox, and will embrace and accept him for who he is, if I couldn't, then why would he bother with me at all?



Well, for one thing, you reduce the amount of medicine that the animal is capable of. You might even hurt the animal in doing so to the point where they are unwilling to work with you. I say this, because I would be hurt if someone were to reduce me to simply 'housewife' and not recognize that I am capable of more than cooking and cleaning! If I were TREATED that way, I would have to walk away from that person just to keep myself sane and feeling whole.

The only positive I can really think of is that it might serve to some as the easiest way to keep their animal medicines straight and in accordance with the animal. But still, that's not really positive to me - it limits them as well as the animal.

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I'm happy to help with any questions!

i think its just the same as having a relative with bad habits you embrace and love them but learn from there bad traits as what not to do and the positive as what to embrace and learn from as if seeing the good and the bad as equally good lessons to learn from so i dont believe it would be right to ignore the negative cause your blocking yourself from what may be great life lessons if somethings negative theres always a way to take something positive out of it
i think that limiting the meaning of an animal such as dolphin meaning love and only love is just the same as ignoring the negative and i hold the same opinion to that
while i think if someone knew the negative was there but blatantly ignores it and goes strictly to the positive u can still get a lot outa the positive so its not as bad as just not believing theres a darkness to a dolphin or any other animal but i think someone would be much better off looking at the negative aspects as what to stay clear of such as maybe (i feel like i may be talking out of my ass here a little) if gang rape is apart of dolphins then could that mean a dark aspect of dolphin may be over drivin sexuality and could that also be a lesson to watch your sexual drive and make sure your thinking with the intellectual head and not the other one?

also i answered each question but with out quoting im to tired to remember how haha bed time for me!

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