Cadno, I'm not saying ALL drugs are bad, I should have said that illegal drugs are bad. I actually have to take medication for several medical problems, so I can understand what you guys mean by the skillfull vs unskillful arguement.

Delphi, I really can't think of anything that society can do to remedy the kind of damage that I have witnessed, besides that bans that they have already put in place.

Point taken Silverwolf, I'm just placing a different perspective on how to view the subject. I'm terrible for taking the middle ground and seeing both sides of the debate.

Hope you all understand

Cadno

PS. I would love to hear others views on this subject.

_________________
'For nights veil is nothing more than fleeting moment in the eyes of the true seeker'

OTO You say:
I'm going to stick up with Silver here. You mention American Indians and other cultures, but what you fail to mention is that typically it was a single individual or a select few that used the drugs and in their culture and it was their "job".
I agree with Silver...drugs of any type don't belong in a religious setting...not in the modern world...and again I'll just state my opinion if you need it to "highten" your meditation or whatever then you aren't doing it right.
Now as a moderator I'll also step in and just cautions all of us that this is a very touchy subject for a lot of reasons and it's obvious we are going to have to agree to disagree at some point...lets just tread lightly.


So If its your job to do such things its ok in your eyes? Is that what your saying?
I’m not understanding what you were trying to say with that sentence. I don’t think that your coming into this Topic and discussion with an open mind but a Mind that is quite closed and has already made its thoughts up and wont hear others. In my posts I never said I *NEEDED* any of it to Heighten My meditation, and to say that Your not going it right because you use other things to help you is Not right in itself. We each get to our state of mind in different ways. I can reach levels of meditation with or Without tools. I used Marijuana and Meditated with it and Had an amazing experience. I didn’t USE it TO Meditate. I understand your opinion and I respect it But As a Moderator you should you not Be open minded to both positions? Should you not be saying that you stick up with another, It is your job as a Moderator to bring the two together to a common ground. TO See Both Point of views which I don’t think you are doing here.

This is a touchy subject only to those who don’t come in with an open mind. And to those who will not respect each others views. This subject is an amazing subject and it can go so many places but I don’t think that it will because of the Closed minded replies that its getting.

Silver you say:
Cadno, I'm not saying ALL drugs are bad, I should have said that illegal drugs are bad. I actually have to take medication for several medical problems, so I can understand what you guys mean by the skillfull vs unskillful arguement.


Illegal drugs are bad? But then what are Legal drugs that are abused and used for the wrong reason? Oxycotin-is a legal drug . It is also Synthetic Heroine. Heroine is not legal. Most Legal drugs come from Illegal drugs and still come with the side effect just not as harsh or intense.


I just want to tell everyone here that Im glad this post came to be, There are a lot of Fascinating things we could learn with this and I hope more join in on this discussion and are not afraid to agree, disagree because we are here to learn not judge.

I am Native American, My Aunt is a Sun Dancer *I believe I got that right hehe* And well I have been taught certain things about Herbs and the use of certain herbs in rituals and what they stand for etc. And it is part of shamanistic practices and the use of such herbs is imbedded in History. If you don’t agree with it don’t agree with it that’s find don’t hate it, just learn from it. Learn. Broadening your Mind cant hurt can It? Even if you don’t put it into practice.






This is How A Discussion goes, we agreed on things and we disagreed on certain things yet we still honored each others perspective. Here is a Chat we had in the chatroom. I changed Names Except mine.


[Adonis] 6:49 pm: grrr
Brennan:] 6:49 pm: ?
Brennan:] 6:49 pm: grrr?

[Adonis] 6:49 pm: Do people not realize that most Legal drugs nowadays stem from most Illegal drugs?
[Adonis] 6:49 pm: What society has mad *Illegal*

Nancy] 6:50 pm: What brought that on Adonis?

[Brennan] 6:50 pm: Shamanism topic, a few people are being quite closed minded about the whole subject of drugs
[
Laura] 6:50 pm: yup, I got liquid cannabis that backs up that

[Adonis] 6:51 pm: saying that Illegal drugs are bad and legal drugs aren’t is ridiculous because you can abuse legal drugs my aunt was hooked on somas and vicodin

Nancy] 6:52 pm: I understand what you are saying Adonis. In fact, I think that all medications and drugs do that to anyone.

[Adonis] 6:52 pm: it is a very amazing topic; I mean it has the potential for a good conversation but I don’t think it will get there

[Nancy] 6:53 pm: I mean mood altering, causing psychosis and other problems that illegal drugs do.

[Brennan] 6:53 pm: I'm afraid you may well be right Adonis

Nancy] 6:53 pm: The OTC’s and prescription do the same thing.
[Nancy] 6:54 pm: In fact Tylenol is a major hallucinogen

[Adonis] 6:54 pm: http://www.magickaschool.com/forum/view ... sc&start=0 this is the topic that we are discussing people
[Adonis] 6:54 pm: Shiiiza people NYQUIL will do that kind of stuff to you

[Laura] 6:55 pm: Adonis love, people will always believe their version of things, and nothing will alter their course

[Brennan] 6:55 pm: lol
[Brennan] 6:55 pm: got a point there
[Brennan] 6:55 pm: But that's the emphasis here, it’s a view, an opinion
[Brennan] 6:56 pm: if it’s kept in that context, then it will be a good thread
[Brennan] 6:56 pm: That's it, from now on I am being renamed the 'peoples mod'

[Laura] 6:56 pm: yes but on this topic, people are not expressing their opinion, they are ramming their views down your throat

[Adonis] 6:57 pm: lol
[Adonis] 6:57 pm: I know that Laura

[Laura] 6:57 pm: I know you do Hun

[Brennan] 6:57 pm: hence why I said 'IF' it was lol

[Laura] 6:57 pm: thing is, who is to say what’s right, or wrong,

[Adonis] 6:58 pm: but still people who come to this thread need to know that they can voice their opinions without being afraid of getting attacked and that’s where I step in

[Laura] 6:58 pm: is it wrong I take liquid cannabis, prescribed to me,

[ [Nancy] 6:58 pm: I think that is up to ourselves, not how society sees it.


[Nancy] 6:58 pm: I mean, not how society sees it.

[Laura] 6:58 pm: or is it right, to alleviate my condition
[Laura] 6:59 pm: if I swallow it, its ok, if I smoke it is wrong, sheesh,

[Nancy] 6:59 pm: remember, mushrooms aren't illegal until they are dried!


[Laura] 7:00 pm: I got some growing in my front garden, didn’t know what they were until my neighbor told me orange tips are good

[Adonis] 7:00 pm: yes and no dear it has a bit to do with society because we are governed by society some of us now are free thinkers and can think for ourselves but our family our parents know what society taught them etc and so that has an emphasis on how we see things

[Derek] 7:02 pm: yes exactly that’s why I have to hide my Wicca from my family

[Brennan] 7:02 pm: I have to add this, Bill Hicks summed it up just right, God finished his grand work and looked down, and though, oh %&$&, I left all this weed everywhere, the humans are going to think they have to smoke it, oh well

[Nancy] 7:02 pm: Adonis you do have a point

[Laura] 7:03 pm: I soooo agree with that Adonis,

[ [Brennan] 7:04 pm: Well this is what I call discussion lol
[Brennan] 7:04 pm: just what the witchdoctor ordered

[Adonis] 7:05 pm: Would you like fries with that?
[Adonis] 7:05 pm: LAG

[Adonis] 7:06 pm: I mean why do people think Marijuana is bad?

[Derek] 7:06 pm: yeah it never killed anyone

[Adonis] 7:06 pm: They think it’s bad because that’s what society tells us to think

[Laura] 7:06 pm: coz they never tried it Hun, lol

[Adonis] 7:06 pm: We are told that its bad because its a drug not just any kind of drug but its illegal
[Adonis] 7:07 pm: And yes most people who say its evil or its bad have not tried it

[Nancy] 7:07 pm: Cuz it was used as a major drug in the 60's and people decided it was bad. That is what I think anyway.

[Derek] 7:07 pm: I think its funny that cigarettes are legal and it gives you cancer but pot is illegal and it has no history of killing people

[Laura] 7:07 pm: but it is not illegal in liquid form, now that’s hypocritical

[Adonis] 7:07 pm: Cigs are legal and Kill Pot is illegal and heals

[Wendy] 7:08 pm: taxes

[Adonis] 7:08 pm: and yes that too Wendy

[Brennan] 7:08 pm: I think in regards to the law, they are finding it harder and harder to justify why it is illegal

[Derek] 7:08 pm: lol yeah and it’s not illegal to be high just getting high is illegal

[Nancy] 7:08 pm: No market??

[Adonis] 7:08 pm: Oh there is a HUGE market for it lol

[Brennan] 7:09 pm: There is a huge demand for it, a dozen of the major cigarette companies have already requested it be legalized so they can produce it

[Nancy] 7:09 pm: But what would be your major selling point other than medicinal purposes?

[Wendy] 7:09 pm: in NY here the congressman and the governor are trying to say making drugs legal will curb crime ... personally they need to call it what it is. Make it legal for the revenue, you'll still have bootlegging going on same as you do for cigarettes and alcohol brb

[Adonis] 7:09 pm: you see it doesn’t matters what’s the major selling point of regular cigs?

[Derek] 7:10 pm: it’s safe and makes you feel good at the same time. And it’s not as addictive

[Laura] 7:10 pm: yes it is actually
[Laura] 7:10 pm: addictive that is

[Derek] 7:10 pm: it doesn’t rot your lungs

[Adonis] 7:10 pm: If someone’s going to get addicted to something they are going to get addicted to it

[Derek] 7:10 pm: not as much as cigs

[Adonis] 7:11 pm: I don’t think its addictive , I’ve done it once and never had the urge or need to do it again but I have done it once in a while but I am not like selling my dogs to get some more
[Derek] 7:11 pm: lol selling your dogs hehe
[Laura] 7:11 pm: with pot the come down is a bummer, with cigs, its worse,

[Adonis] 7:11 pm: I think its each a personal experience, it affects people differently

[Laura] 7:12 pm: yup

[Brennan] 7:12 pm: there are studies that suggest that it is less addictive, but others that say it may increase the chance of cancer when smoked, as many who do mix it with tobacco anyway

[Laura] 7:12 pm: if you are used to say smoking a 9 bar a week, and then go to nothing, your irritable forgetful etc,


[Derek] 7:13 pm: only for like 2 weeks then you’re back to normal

[Brennan] 7:13 pm: I can't comment there, never smoked that much lol

Laura] 7:13 pm: but if you go from 60 cigs a day to 10, then its much worse,

[Adonis] 7:13 pm: I think that’s all a personal case though

[Laura] 7:13 pm: yup

[Brennan] 7:13 pm: speaking of which, brb rolling a ciggy lol

[Adonis] 7:13 pm: like with weed my friends dad smokes every single day
[Adonis] 7:13 pm: EVERY DAY

[Derek] 7:13 pm: that’s true Adonis

[Adonis] 7:14 pm: well he didn’t have any weed left *he grows it* and didn’t have any around him he stopped for a few weeks and he was the same as he always was

[Laura] 7:14 pm: I have a mate who smokes it instead of Cigs,
[Laura] 7:14 pm: every time she lights up it’s a Joint
[Laura] 7:14 pm: about 30 a day

_________________
*Psychic *Medium *Reiki Master *Theta Healing Practitioner *Blessed Witch *Root Worker

*Let NONE stop you, Or turn you aside!-Aradia



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_________________
Crafty little Witch - friend to animals and trees alike

ok guys, lets get this topic back on track.
why don't we look at the ways 'psychedelic' drugs were used in past cultures and go from there.
the example that springs to my head straight away is the Oracle at Delphi. where, from what i understand, the high priestess chewed (bay?) leaves to induce visions. and i'm sure there was at least one other instance of the use of 'psychedelic' substances in Ancient Greece. I'll do a bit of research into it today and post what i can find.
anyone else got an example of the use of 'psychedelic' drugs in religion? or i suppose any drugs!
whiteraven

Hi everyone,

I don't usually spend much time in this forum but Adonis's last post caught my eye - thank you for posting that.

Ellovium, wise words, as always.

The problems with this thread seem to be a continuation of a general problem I'm seeing across the forums right now. I want members to state their opinions without placing judgement on those with differing opinions. Trust me, I know that this is easier said than done but it's very important. It's very important that everyone feels they can state their opinions without feeling they have to defend themselves. There's nothing wrong with disagreement and differing opinions as long as people are less judgemental and open to differing points of view.

Flossie
xx

Well I'm going to second what Ellovium, Whiteraven and Flossie have said, I couldn't have put it better myself lol.

In regards to the use of mind altering herbs, I was considering the original mix for a flying ointment. It contained Deadly nightshade and many have speculated how the toxicity of this substance was dealt with in regards to not becoming seriously ill or even death.

Now just to clear up before I move on with this, by flying ointment I mean inducing a state of trance that allows you to enter the astral. I know I really didn't need to say it, but you can never be to careful.

One of the theorized ideas on how this was done was the use of the opium poppy. In modern medicine one of the techniques to deal with poisening by belladonna (deadly nightshade) is to administer morphine. So you can easily see how the application of the two herbs could actually allow the hightened state and prevent the user from doing serious harm.

Now I have to say this, kids you shouldn't try this at home or even in a forest. This could be lethal and I would strongly suggest you read about it instead of trying it.

Cadno

_________________
'For nights veil is nothing more than fleeting moment in the eyes of the true seeker'

i know that in mild doses belladona can be a sedative and i've even heard of it being used in digestive problems. so it might be its sedative properties that is used in the flying ointment. just maybe though! i wouldn't try it if i were you!!!

This link makes for informative reading.

http://www.slatts.fsworld.co.uk/debate.html

Just thought I would put that up, for people who know nothing about Cannabis to be more informed.

My views are my own and a lot of people would disagree with them but that is what freedom of speech is about. Our views are our own, as are our choices. I do not need to be told that drugs are wrong, as an adult I know that, but I really do happen to think that Cannabis is much less of a threat to us than many of the prescribed drugs and other stimulants out there such alcohol. Cannabis has never killed anyone, but how many drunk drivers have? If Cannabis were to made legal, it could be regulated, to ensure persons under age were not able to buy it, but saying that, the other side of the coin is don't we already do that with alcohol? but still persons under the legal age can still get hold of it. there good and bad arguments on both sides.
But thats the thing you see, people should express their opinion, but not ram their views down out throat and name call, etc. As adults we should be able to debate this topic without bad feeling and arguments, at the end of the day, it is our own choice to partake or not.

Blessings
dracos

Dracos I have to draw your attention to the following copyright policy.

http://magickaschool.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2691

If you haven't gained permission can you either modify or delete the post or I'm afraid I will have to. I'm sorry I have to ask but you can understand my possition and that of the site, we have to be very careful.

Cadno

EDITED NOTE - I would like to say though that the information is amazing, depending on whether you have permission or not this could still be added as a link to the thread.

Also I would like to say that the above post has been amended and that there are no further copyright problems, thankyou Draco for understanding.

_________________
'For nights veil is nothing more than fleeting moment in the eyes of the true seeker'

that was very interesting dracos. i know that cannabis is also used medicinally in treatments for cancer, arthritis and Multiple Sclerosis (MS) for its pain reliveing properties.
wasn't cannabis demoted a class in england a while ago? i remember something like 'you can smoke it but not deal it'?. it was a while ago so i don't remember much.

My husband's friend smokes cannabis every day.. He works really well when he's had a smoke. There's nothing whatsoever negative about his drug usage.

My cousin went from smoking joints to heroin addiction, trying every drug along the way. Unsurprisingly she's dead now.

Without anti-depressants I wouldn't be able to get out of bed.


I think that really every substance can be deadly or positive - it all depends on the person who's taking the substance.

Flossie

Whiteraven it was taken down a class here in Britain, its still illegal but you will simply be given a slap on the wrist for having a small personal amount. This only works every so often though, you can still be arrested if they give you so many warnings.

Cadno

_________________
'For nights veil is nothing more than fleeting moment in the eyes of the true seeker'

You right cadno, it was de-classified in January 2004 from a B to a C classification.

Blessings
dracos

PS. No worries hun!

Okay, I'm going to use the words of Delphi. The drugs themselves aren't bad, just the way that they are used can be skillful or unskillful. So, taking drugs for any reason except for medical reasons, like marijuana for certain diseases, or herione for pain relief, is unskillful. In my mind, I equate that with bad, so it's not the drugs themselves that I feel are bad, but the way in which they are used.

I recognize the fact that some illegal drugs do have qualities that are quite helpful, when they are used for that specific reason, then I really don't care what you do. But, if you're using drugs like marijuana or herione to make the emotional pain, or to escape this reality, then I will take a stand that can seem quite judgemental.