OTO You say:
I'm going to stick up with Silver here. You mention American Indians and other cultures, but what you fail to mention is that typically it was a single individual or a select few that used the drugs and in their culture and it was their "job".
I agree with Silver...drugs of any type don't belong in a religious setting...not in the modern world...and again I'll just state my opinion if you need it to "highten" your meditation or whatever then you aren't doing it right.
Now as a moderator I'll also step in and just cautions all of us that this is a very touchy subject for a lot of reasons and it's obvious we are going to have to agree to disagree at some point...lets just tread lightly.
So If its your job to do such things its ok in your eyes? Is that what your saying?
I’m not understanding what you were trying to say with that sentence. I don’t think that your coming into this Topic and discussion with an open mind but a Mind that is quite closed and has already made its thoughts up and wont hear others. In my posts I never said I *NEEDED* any of it to Heighten My meditation, and to say that Your not going it right because you use other things to help you is Not right in itself. We each get to our state of mind in different ways. I can reach levels of meditation with or Without tools. I used Marijuana and Meditated with it and Had an amazing experience. I didn’t USE it TO Meditate. I understand your opinion and I respect it But As a Moderator you should you not Be open minded to both positions? Should you not be saying that you stick up with another, It is your job as a Moderator to bring the two together to a common ground. TO See Both Point of views which I don’t think you are doing here.
This is a touchy subject only to those who don’t come in with an open mind. And to those who will not respect each others views. This subject is an amazing subject and it can go so many places but I don’t think that it will because of the Closed minded replies that its getting.
Silver you say:
Cadno, I'm not saying ALL drugs are bad, I should have said that illegal drugs are bad. I actually have to take medication for several medical problems, so I can understand what you guys mean by the skillfull vs unskillful arguement.
Illegal drugs are bad? But then what are Legal drugs that are abused and used for the wrong reason? Oxycotin-is a legal drug . It is also Synthetic Heroine. Heroine is not legal. Most Legal drugs come from Illegal drugs and still come with the side effect just not as harsh or intense.
I just want to tell everyone here that Im glad this post came to be, There are a lot of Fascinating things we could learn with this and I hope more join in on this discussion and are not afraid to agree, disagree because we are here to learn not judge.
I am Native American, My Aunt is a Sun Dancer *I believe I got that right hehe* And well I have been taught certain things about Herbs and the use of certain herbs in rituals and what they stand for etc. And it is part of shamanistic practices and the use of such herbs is imbedded in History. If you don’t agree with it don’t agree with it that’s find don’t hate it, just learn from it. Learn. Broadening your Mind cant hurt can It? Even if you don’t put it into practice.
This is How A Discussion goes, we agreed on things and we disagreed on certain things yet we still honored each others perspective. Here is a Chat we had in the chatroom. I changed Names Except mine.
[Adonis] 6:49 pm: grrr
Brennan:] 6:49 pm: ?
Brennan:] 6:49 pm: grrr?
[Adonis] 6:49 pm: Do people not realize that most Legal drugs nowadays stem from most Illegal drugs?
[Adonis] 6:49 pm: What society has mad *Illegal*
Nancy] 6:50 pm: What brought that on Adonis?
[Brennan] 6:50 pm: Shamanism topic, a few people are being quite closed minded about the whole subject of drugs
Laura] 6:50 pm: yup, I got liquid cannabis that backs up that
[Adonis] 6:51 pm: saying that Illegal drugs are bad and legal drugs aren’t is ridiculous because you can abuse legal drugs my aunt was hooked on somas and vicodin
Nancy] 6:52 pm: I understand what you are saying Adonis. In fact, I think that all medications and drugs do that to anyone.
[Adonis] 6:52 pm: it is a very amazing topic; I mean it has the potential for a good conversation but I don’t think it will get there
[Nancy] 6:53 pm: I mean mood altering, causing psychosis and other problems that illegal drugs do.
[Brennan] 6:53 pm: I'm afraid you may well be right Adonis
Nancy] 6:53 pm: The OTC’s and prescription do the same thing.
[Nancy] 6:54 pm: In fact Tylenol is a major hallucinogen
[Adonis] 6:54 pm: http://www.magickaschool.com/forum/view ... sc&start=0
this is the topic that we are discussing people
[Adonis] 6:54 pm: Shiiiza people NYQUIL will do that kind of stuff to you
[Laura] 6:55 pm: Adonis love, people will always believe their version of things, and nothing will alter their course
[Brennan] 6:55 pm: lol
[Brennan] 6:55 pm: got a point there
[Brennan] 6:55 pm: But that's the emphasis here, it’s a view, an opinion
[Brennan] 6:56 pm: if it’s kept in that context, then it will be a good thread
[Brennan] 6:56 pm: That's it, from now on I am being renamed the 'peoples mod'
[Laura] 6:56 pm: yes but on this topic, people are not expressing their opinion, they are ramming their views down your throat
[Adonis] 6:57 pm: lol
[Adonis] 6:57 pm: I know that Laura
[Laura] 6:57 pm: I know you do Hun
[Brennan] 6:57 pm: hence why I said 'IF' it was lol
[Laura] 6:57 pm: thing is, who is to say what’s right, or wrong,
[Adonis] 6:58 pm: but still people who come to this thread need to know that they can voice their opinions without being afraid of getting attacked and that’s where I step in
[Laura] 6:58 pm: is it wrong I take liquid cannabis, prescribed to me,
[ [Nancy] 6:58 pm: I think that is up to ourselves, not how society sees it.
[Nancy] 6:58 pm: I mean, not how society sees it.
[Laura] 6:58 pm: or is it right, to alleviate my condition
[Laura] 6:59 pm: if I swallow it, its ok, if I smoke it is wrong, sheesh,
[Nancy] 6:59 pm: remember, mushrooms aren't illegal until they are dried!
[Laura] 7:00 pm: I got some growing in my front garden, didn’t know what they were until my neighbor told me orange tips are good
[Adonis] 7:00 pm: yes and no dear it has a bit to do with society because we are governed by society some of us now are free thinkers and can think for ourselves but our family our parents know what society taught them etc and so that has an emphasis on how we see things
[Derek] 7:02 pm: yes exactly that’s why I have to hide my Wicca from my family
[Brennan] 7:02 pm: I have to add this, Bill Hicks summed it up just right, God finished his grand work and looked down, and though, oh %&$&, I left all this weed everywhere, the humans are going to think they have to smoke it, oh well
[Nancy] 7:02 pm: Adonis you do have a point
[Laura] 7:03 pm: I soooo agree with that Adonis,
[ [Brennan] 7:04 pm: Well this is what I call discussion lol
[Brennan] 7:04 pm: just what the witchdoctor ordered
[Adonis] 7:05 pm: Would you like fries with that?
[Adonis] 7:05 pm: LAG
[Adonis] 7:06 pm: I mean why do people think Marijuana is bad?
[Derek] 7:06 pm: yeah it never killed anyone
[Adonis] 7:06 pm: They think it’s bad because that’s what society tells us to think
[Laura] 7:06 pm: coz they never tried it Hun, lol
[Adonis] 7:06 pm: We are told that its bad because its a drug not just any kind of drug but its illegal
[Adonis] 7:07 pm: And yes most people who say its evil or its bad have not tried it
[Nancy] 7:07 pm: Cuz it was used as a major drug in the 60's and people decided it was bad. That is what I think anyway.
[Derek] 7:07 pm: I think its funny that cigarettes are legal and it gives you cancer but pot is illegal and it has no history of killing people
[Laura] 7:07 pm: but it is not illegal in liquid form, now that’s hypocritical
[Adonis] 7:07 pm: Cigs are legal and Kill Pot is illegal and heals
[Wendy] 7:08 pm: taxes
[Adonis] 7:08 pm: and yes that too Wendy
[Brennan] 7:08 pm: I think in regards to the law, they are finding it harder and harder to justify why it is illegal
[Derek] 7:08 pm: lol yeah and it’s not illegal to be high just getting high is illegal
[Nancy] 7:08 pm: No market??
[Adonis] 7:08 pm: Oh there is a HUGE market for it lol
[Brennan] 7:09 pm: There is a huge demand for it, a dozen of the major cigarette companies have already requested it be legalized so they can produce it
[Nancy] 7:09 pm: But what would be your major selling point other than medicinal purposes?
[Wendy] 7:09 pm: in NY here the congressman and the governor are trying to say making drugs legal will curb crime ... personally they need to call it what it is. Make it legal for the revenue, you'll still have bootlegging going on same as you do for cigarettes and alcohol brb
[Adonis] 7:09 pm: you see it doesn’t matters what’s the major selling point of regular cigs?
[Derek] 7:10 pm: it’s safe and makes you feel good at the same time. And it’s not as addictive
[Laura] 7:10 pm: yes it is actually
[Laura] 7:10 pm: addictive that is
[Derek] 7:10 pm: it doesn’t rot your lungs
[Adonis] 7:10 pm: If someone’s going to get addicted to something they are going to get addicted to it
[Derek] 7:10 pm: not as much as cigs
[Adonis] 7:11 pm: I don’t think its addictive , I’ve done it once and never had the urge or need to do it again but I have done it once in a while but I am not like selling my dogs to get some more
[Derek] 7:11 pm: lol selling your dogs hehe
[Laura] 7:11 pm: with pot the come down is a bummer, with cigs, its worse,
[Adonis] 7:11 pm: I think its each a personal experience, it affects people differently
[Laura] 7:12 pm: yup
[Brennan] 7:12 pm: there are studies that suggest that it is less addictive, but others that say it may increase the chance of cancer when smoked, as many who do mix it with tobacco anyway
[Laura] 7:12 pm: if you are used to say smoking a 9 bar a week, and then go to nothing, your irritable forgetful etc,
[Derek] 7:13 pm: only for like 2 weeks then you’re back to normal
[Brennan] 7:13 pm: I can't comment there, never smoked that much lol
Laura] 7:13 pm: but if you go from 60 cigs a day to 10, then its much worse,
[Adonis] 7:13 pm: I think that’s all a personal case though
[Laura] 7:13 pm: yup
[Brennan] 7:13 pm: speaking of which, brb rolling a ciggy lol
[Adonis] 7:13 pm: like with weed my friends dad smokes every single day
[Adonis] 7:13 pm: EVERY DAY
[Derek] 7:13 pm: that’s true Adonis
[Adonis] 7:14 pm: well he didn’t have any weed left *he grows it* and didn’t have any around him he stopped for a few weeks and he was the same as he always was
[Laura] 7:14 pm: I have a mate who smokes it instead of Cigs,
[Laura] 7:14 pm: every time she lights up it’s a Joint
[Laura] 7:14 pm: about 30 a day