Makes sense, you are, after all dealing with a spiritual realm to begin with-even (I'm assuming) though all participants are generally present for an urt retrieval. Please disregard my last question...you've already answered it.


BB,

Arianwen

_________________
Peace Profound,

Arianwen

Now now now my Dear Ravenari I have read this whole topic and my mind is a buzzin, do ya hear it? BZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ lol


First question is this. If someone manages lets say to take anothers Urt are they able to view exactly what that Urt is? I'm sure that each Urt will look differently but could you share as to how some have come across to you? And by taking one, and tapping into it, is it possible that one can tap into that persons soul? I mean in a sense I guess they would already be doing that but I mean more so in a way of control? As in being able to see exactly what this Urt is, what caused it, and using it as a means to hold over another?

I hope i'm making sense haha.


Another question. You said something on curses which got me to thinking. If one really got down to it, could they technically work a curse to either attack the persons individual Urts or to create them?


I'm actually just curious y'all dont freak out on me lol.



Another question. What about marriage, when two people love each other so much and one states they would do anything for that person etc and in a sense they give a part of their soul to their lover. Do you go about retreiving different types of Urts in certain ways or is it all the same way? I mean i know that even in love you should not give anotehr a piece of your soul its not theirs.

And what about past lives? Are they in the mix? Issues that we carry here from the life we've lived before...

Ok enough of my questions for now

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It takes training to recognise what an Urt feels like in the otherworlds (and they can feel quite different depending on whether they were severed due to interaction with another / surgical trauma / chronic illness / if a malicious entity took them).

I don't think that most people who are in possession of another's Urt fragment would know what that fragment looked like, but that doesn't mean that - once becoming aware that they possess the energy of another and need to release it - they can't give it it's own visual anchor to help with its release.

It might not be an accurate anchor, but giving it a shape can help very much with its release. I believe that some shamanists, and Indigenous shamans, will even create pre-conceived effigies to act as Urt anchors to give it somewhere to reside before it is returned back to its rightful place.



Most of the Urt fragments I work with tend to appear as people, often children. But then I've also worked with fragments that were shards of glass, one that was a distinct blue egg that needed to be incubated before it would hatch and return to where it needed to go (that egg is still under incubation, incidentally, with a current client), others that appeared as coins or monetary units, others that were bones, pieces of artwork, and even other animals or trees.



I think I see what you're saying here (correct me if I'm wrong). If an experienced shaman or shamanist took a fragment of someone else's soul and imprisoned it (and yes, this does happen, more commonly in Indigenous Siberian communities), they would have a vast amount of conscious control over what they did to that fragment and consequently the health of the individual that they took the Urt fragment from.

As opposed to most people, who have almost no control over the Urt fragments of others they hold and so also suffer for what they've taken, people who deliberately fragment and steal Urt fragments can actually hold a lot of control. The bigger or more fragments they have, the more control they have over another person's spiritual journey and free will.



Creating them not so much, an Urt isn't created out of thin air, kind of in the same way that you can't 'create' energy out of nothing. A person can have other energies and entities shoved into them (via deliberate possession etc.), but this doesn't create a new Urt, though it can displace or fragment the Urt already within the body.

And yes, curses are definitely used, and can be used, to attack, displace, harm or threaten the Urt, or alternatively to split the Urt so that a shaman or shamanist may hold possession over a soul fragment and therefore have power over another person.

Shamanic curses can also be used to push or shove malicious, harmful entities and 'illnesses' (like chronic disease) into a person's spirit, without their knowledge.

It's more insidious than just wishing 'three days of sickness' on a person, but also difficult to work. It requires a profound understanding of the Otherworlds, a complete or very competent arsenal of spirit helpers and guides, and the knowledge that if you're working against another magical practicioner, they will very likely retaliate brutally once they have realised what is happening.



Methods of retrieving Urts go on a case by case basis. In my own personal experience, and from what I've heard from others via word of mouth, we don't mind so much if there is some Urt exchange between two loved ones. It's fairly inevitable over time. Twins often experience a similar connection. As do parents who have a close relationship with their child.

Most things tend to progress normally, and upon the death or separation of a loved one, Urt fragments will usually go quite happily back to the original person. I mean, we consider the assimilation process of this journey a natural part of 'grief,' and that once the person feels whole and able to continue with their lives again, the Urt has assimilated without the assistance of anyone else. Sometimes it doesn't work this way, sometimes a partner will pine to death after their loved one dies, and then you have things like complicated grief, the latter which can be assisted very much by soul retrieval. Though, only if the Urt fragment wants to come back.



It is very rare for a child to be born without a complete Urt. One of the reasons children are so innocent, able to experience magic and psychic abilities, and so able to connect with nature, is because they are born with complete Urts. As they grow and experience trauma, the Urt begins to fragment little by little, and they become more jaded and cynical, lose their 'innocence' and often their abilities to connect with nature and the world. I think this is why inner child therapies are so popular and also so healing, they help a person retrieve their inner child fragments and become more whole.

So even if someone has a lot of issues from a past life, the Urt still tends to be whole upon birth. But this is because the soul that stores memories from past lives is not the Urt. And I think a few Indigenous and neo-Shamanic communities that do believe in more than one soul, believe that the soul that stores memories and past lives is not generally the soul that is fragmented and split off into the Otherworlds.

Kinda gives a different perspective into the term zombie heh

Thank you Ravenari for sharing Actually puts me into process and experienc mode. It truly is a subject I must delve into and understand more. The healing of this is just so amazing. It actually makes me think more so that we need more shamans in this world then we do therapists lol. Thank you for sharing, Namaste.

Adonis

P.S. Don't think you've heard the last from me haha.

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*Psychic *Medium *Reiki Master *Theta Healing Practitioner *Blessed Witch *Root Worker

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Eheh. Well, it's very difficult to reduce someone to a vegetative state. The Urt wants to stay very much with the person, that is - with the exception of trauma - the natural order of things, and even the most powerful of shamans can struggle with severing more than a fragment - especially of a healthy person, or even more difficult, a healthy magical practicioner.

I agree with you too, I think we need more shamans in this world. There is a growing community of Neo-Shamanists who are not so dependent on Harnerism anymore and take soul retrieval very seriously, but it's slow going, and many of us live fairly quietly so that we can do justice to the clients we already have, and the community/ies that we serve.

More and more psychologists and psychiatrists though, are starting to look into working with shamans / shamanists, and Sandra Ingerman (a Core shamanist) is a psychologist who now practices and teaches soul retrieval. It's quite a psychologised method, but from my understanding, still very effective.

What are you up to, PA? Mwahahahahahahaha!

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Peace Profound,

Arianwen

Now that's something I'd like to find out more about.
I'm a social work student planning on going into clinical therapy.
I'll have to dig up some info on what she is doing.

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R. Bach

There is a growing body of literature on soul retrieval + therapy, and if you look up shamanism on somewhere like Amazon, or 'soul retrieval,' there are many titles these days devoted to merging the two or how to go about doing it.

A few people on my Flist on LiveJournal have studied, or are studying psychology, and many have seen that soul retrieval has practical applications whether you believe that you are actually doing external journeying, or whether you believe it is internal universe / mindframe type work.

I have a book from a psychologist titled "Shamanism and Psychology" but I haven't had a chance to dig into yet to see what it's like.
So much to do with so very little time.

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Argue for your limitations, and sure enough they're yours.
R. Bach

Is it very hard to communicate with the dead in the otherworld? What if the soul that is trying to be communicated with is "evil" or a genuanly bad person when alive, would they be harder to communicate with?
(I know this was brought up a few posts ago, but i think i missed that boat. Jumpin on now tho lol )

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Truth and time answer all questions.

Yes and no. If the dead come up to you, then it's easy. They want to communicate. They want help and assistance.

But many people go into the otherworlds and want to communicate with people they miss, ancestors, or basically have a prior agenda. And it can be very difficult then to talk to who you want to.

In my own practices of shamanism, talking to the dead isn't about getting one last chance to talk with long lost Aunty Fay, or whatever (that's more the realm of mediumship / spiritualism, I think). So if you go with that kind of agenda, chances are, you're going to have a fairly fruitless search.



Most people tend to discard a lot of their personality traits in the otherworlds. It's about movement, growth and moving on, not about 'staying the same.' So someone who committed very destructive acts in one lifetime, may actually be a peaceful, calm or sedate person in the Otherworlds.

I have shepherded many people into their resting places. I have never bothered to find out whether I'm shepherding a serial killer or a saint. I shepherd who comes to me, and I don't judge. It's not the place of the psychopomp to judge or determine who is worthy to cross. That's the job of the gods who will give them the final once over once they are in the world of the dead. All we do is provide them with some comfort and reassurance before helping them on their way.

Thank you, very enlightening as usual. So, another question. Do you have ALL the answers? :) lol j/k

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Truth and time answer all questions.

I don't even have most of them, which is kind of nice actually. I love learning stuff, I would get utterly bored with myself if I ever approached knowing all the answers.

Teehehe very good point

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Truth and time answer all questions.