I'm looking forward to attempting my first journey but am concerned about dangers and risks. My reading of books on shamanism and this forum suggest that there are very real dangers. I have yet to find anything specific as to what they are. Perhaps I have just overlooked this information. I would appreciate some help with this. Please.

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Shadowstalker

Possible dangers of journeying include (but are not limited to):

1. Being attacked by entities that have no love for humans (almost all demons in the otherworlds, many spirits in the upper and middleworlds). This is even more likely if you don't have a good band of spirit helpers and spirit guides to assist you.

2. Experiencing soul severing and being unable to retrieve that soul fragment - which in the 'real world' can lead to mental illness, long term chronic physical illness, and an inability to experience things in all their fullness.

3. Experiencing possession or occupation. At best, by non-malicious entities. At worst, by malicious entities.

4. Angering the spirits and gods - which can lead to long-term repercussions (i.e. being banned from certain areas, having gods refuse to work with you, experiencing a word of mouth 'staining' of your reputation which will affect how much respect you get in the otherworlds in the first place).

5. Getting 'trapped,' or being unable to get yourself out of a certain situation (i.e. falling in an abyss, and only being able to 'get out of it' by wrenching your soul back into the physical real world. This tends to leave a part of the soul always falling in that abyss. Again consequences can be all the consequences of soul severing.

That's just a basic example of pretty common 'dangers' of journeying - not only for amateurs, but also for highly experienced workers.

Ask yourself, and question yourself very carefully about why you want to journey. If it's just to 'see what it's like,' then I don't recommend it. If you feel you have a calling or purpose towards it, then take it carefully and make sure that you have a god or spirit who is willing to travel with you and help you out. NEVER journey alone.

Merry meet, prospector.

You're very wise to entertain the idea of the dangers of journeying before attempting! So for this I commend you firstly.

As one would not barge into another person's home, so should one be cautious of entering the Otherworlds unprepared and unguided. To enter the Otherworlds without a reason for being there is like opening a stranger's front door and going into their kitchen to eat their food.

A reason to travel there is needed...guides and totem(s) are needed...shielding and, most importantly, understanding what the dangers are are absolutely necessary. So you are on the right track by being cautious.

Here are a few of the dangers according to the rules of etiquette (Ravenari is better equipped to answer in detail):

~Being taken advantage of by beings/entities who realize that you probably don't know what the hell you are doing. Manipulated or tricked into promising them something that you may reap consequences for should you not be able to deliver.

~Eating foods or drinking drinks in the Otherworlds can be dangerous for many reasons.

~Offending spirits/deities/beings by being ignorant or by invading territory that you have no business being in without permission.

~Being attacked, wounded or even killed by beings/entities.

~Having something come back with you - possession, attachment, madness.

~Being cursed.

As I said, Ravenari can give more details, but it can be more treacherous than one realizes. Madness and even death can occur for the unprepared. I STRONGLY advise that you read "Otherworld Etiquette" for a glimpse of how you can get into trouble in the Otherworlds with ignorance or ignoring the guidance of your guides or totem(s). Blessings.

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Thank you Ravenari and Torey. Your responses to my request were very helpful, just what what I was looking for.

I will meditate on them and my motivatitions.

By the by, I made a drum from some scrap wood. Used eighth inch plywood for a drumhead. It sounds great. A small willow branch I found and some wool batting donated by my wife made up the beater. Making it was most satisfying.

Thanks again.

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Shadowstalker

Oops I think that I didn't see Ravenari's post...or we posted at the same time. Sorry.

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Oh no, I wish I could have found this at the time it was being posted...I wouldn't bring it back up again except for the fact that while you guys give valid points, are things that most wouldn't have to worry about (atleast right away)

So this post is going to be future reference of the poster or future reader...As someone that has journeyed for a few years and has experienced a great deal I would like to mention first...That in a way its like astral projection, when you project your spirit self/energy to an energy realm~the condition you are going in is what you may attract to you. So it's always wise not to try to do this when in a fowl mood because you may end up in a place with entities you wouldn't like (which are the lower vibrational areas of the astral realm). It's always good to atleast think about doing a cleansing before journeying/APing, visualize yourself being surrounded by protective white light.

If you happen to run into something you don't like you could Always imagine another place and you're instantly there. So it's good to have a safe spot in that realm.

I never journeyed alone in the beginning, and when I do journey now I meet up with creatures at a specific spot. So it's always good to maybe invite a trusted guide with you to help you keep to the higher vibrational areas. When I journey I have a certain spot that I go to all the time where I know its safe. To find a spot you could either ask your guide to take you to a safe spot you can explore or you simply go in with the intent of going to a spot where you will have no trouble starting out.

One doesn't have to worry about cord-severing as alot of people seem to have a fear about, it's never happened to anyone in all of recorded history so don't worry about that.

Something that people don't think about is that the astral realms are quite real. Meaning in their world they are the physical ones and you are the visiting energy. Just as we have visiting energies on our physical earth that are invisible to our eyes. So any creature you Do come across you should always respect.

Being cursed shouldn't really be an issue, nor possession, you can not be killed (as goes with the severing of your cord) and you can't leave traces of your soul behind, you can be attacked but as I said if you keep your emotions and energy in higher vibrations you shouldn't have any trouble attracting that sort of stuff to you. If you find something unpleasant you merely tell it to go, if it persists envision the white light around you and draw a pentacle at it telling it to leave or instantly think of your safe spot.

Eating foods and drinking should be a big deal. Its all energy, you can't get poisoned. There are many places with waters that are quite healing and will sooth your energy. I've hunted many times in astral forests and have always been fine. Haven't had any other energy try to Get me to eat anything though. I would assume you trust your gut on things like that and let your guides tell your what they think.

If you do bad things, you will get karmically bit. That's that. And I believe that's the only way you can really "anger the gods" as someone said. Or any other spirit being. Don't go acting like a hunter and try attacking other things, anything you wouldn't want to do on this earth simply don't do there.

I hope that helps others and makes you feel a bit better about journeying. It shouldn't be scary but you should be prepared. Journeying can be quite fun when you find others to journey with (even if it is just spirit guides).

Brightest Blessings,
*~Luna

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*~I Close My Eyes So That I May See~*

Im sorry, but in my experience and thru studies and others journeying experiences i know some of what you said to be misleading if not outright false. (no offense, but that type of info can be dangerous to some folks)

-You can leave pieces of your soul behind; regardless of whether you have given them up or they have been taken somehow from you.

-You cant always just envision another place and go right there.

-You dont always attract bad things cuz you are in a foul mood, that may happen no matter how happy or pleasant you are being.

-Im also not sure how you can say absolutely that "One doesn't have to worry about cord-severing as alot of people seem to have a fear about, it's never happened to anyone in all of recorded history so don't worry about that." the whole of our history is thousands of years old; im sure at some point someone has had their "cord" broken. i on the other hand dont have a specific "cord" attached to me either.

-Possession is something to wary about, especially if you are in a weakened state for some reason.

The following may not always work either "If you find something unpleasant you merely tell it to go..."

-While food/drink may not technically be poisoned, it could possibly make you feel ill or make you over sleepy etc when you get back. you said "Eating foods and drinking shouldnt be a big deal. Its all energy, you can't get poisoned."

False information (no matter how well intentioned) may get others seriously hurt in a number of ways, it is especially misleading to "newbies". Im not trying to tear thru your whole post, however it is not fair or safe to lead others to believe things that are untrue or false.
The telling of your own experiences is a great learning tool for others as long as you dont claim things are facts or true when they may not actually be.
Ravenari has added some very valid and truthful information to this forum that can be used as a safe guide to journeying, she even includes a bit on otherworld etiquette

blessings~
ruby rowan

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"Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that frightens us."
~~Nelson Mandela~~


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I have to agree with Ruby on this one. Journeying, as it has been popularized by Core Shamanism (nothing wrong with that in itself), has someone how become Neo-Paganized and painted to be "basically the same thing" as astral projection. True journeying is not the same thing as astral projection and operates on an entirely different brain wave. It's acceptable for everyone to embrace what they personally interpret journeying to be for themselves, but it shouldn't be objectively perpetuated as "journeying" if it is technically not.

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~ It does not do to dwell on dreams and forget to live ~

i believe so ive done some shamanic type work this past two years or so; but i wouldnt call myself a shaman. ive definately done some journeying with Hawk, i think its posted here somewhere in Shamanism.... it was very interesting to say the least,lol....

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"Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that frightens us."
~~Nelson Mandela~~


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here is the link to my biggest and best journey ever

viewtopic.php?f=28&t=21197

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"Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that frightens us."
~~Nelson Mandela~~


Mod of Shamanism,Crystals,Alternative Paths,Pagan Politics,Aromatherapy, Folklore,Dreamscape & Astrology!
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~ It does not do to dwell on dreams and forget to live ~

No, really alot of that stuff isn't as big of a deal as people make it out to seem. I spoke mostly through experience but if you need a reference I recently picked up "The witches guide to astral travel" By D.J. Conway, which for me is a very trusted writer because I've experienced some of what she puts in her books. It speaks about envisioning yourself surrounded by white light for protection, imagining a specific place to project there. That is also in most of what I read online and in books, is that you can either choose to "fly" to a place or "float" there, but you can also do it the quick way and "teleport" using your creative mind.

Possession actually Rarely happens and so far that I've heard its merely been a earth experience, as in not in the astral realm but in your physical body. Such things happen with walk-ins as well but that's a little different.

One should Never journey Or astral travel when in a weakened state, you'll most likely fall asleep and while that's not ever recommended to allow yourself to do, it does happen and that's what your guides are for. It is said that we astrally project naturally in our sleep most nights.

I speak about astral projection and journeying as near-the-same thing mostly because what I've experienced it seems almost the same. And from what I've spoken about with others, the only difference with astral projection is that it's like a much more intense journey~in which you have to go through the whole, lay down and relax all your muscles, get into this type of state and all that when for me journeying I can sit in a chair with some drumming music and journey fine while doing other things (although I can't do anything that involves alot of thinking and talking).

Oh, the cord severing is in Most things I've read about astral projection and such (online and in books), that includes the book I mentioned above by D.J.Conway. It really doesn't happen, it's just one of those things people fear and what tends to make it hard for them to actually get anywhere while trying to travel to the other realms. You can't lose pieces of your soul, but you can lose bits of your energy in memories and in other places which I guess would include other worlds as well. But they Can be retrieved especially if you know an experienced shaman that practices energy retrieval.

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*~I Close My Eyes So That I May See~*

Whilst I have a lot of respect for D J Conway and her work with dragons, she is not a Shamanist. As such, her experience with soul splitting and possession would only be as a third party, that is, relying on others for her information. Her experiences with astral travel cannot really be applied to journeying, from a shamanistic point of view.

My recommendation would be to read up the posts made by Ravenari in the Shamanism thread. She is a shamanist with many years of experience and may be able to give you better insight.

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you CAN actually lose parts of your soul, its called soul fragmentation. its not just bits of your energies.
I also like DJ Conway, but she is a celtic witch at heart and really isnt a "shaman".

There is a BIG difference between journeying and astral projecting.

The way you make it sound is dangerous to newcomers and you need to please be careful what you claim as fact; unfortunately your own experience is not considered fact.
You should take some time to read the things Ravenari has added here to the Shamanism forum. she has info on most everything and another forum site of her own on shamanism. (just like Miri said )

Journeying is a BIG deal and should be treated as such, it can be extremly dangerous for some folks. and some folks sadly will never even be able to fully "journey" either. so please be careful with your information and posts.

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"Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that frightens us."
~~Nelson Mandela~~


Mod of Shamanism,Crystals,Alternative Paths,Pagan Politics,Aromatherapy, Folklore,Dreamscape & Astrology!
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